Teacher’s pay and educational outcomes

By echo

Below is a guest post by Justin

In the past weeks education has become a political platform for our pollies. Kevin Rudd has proclaimed possibilities of a ‘revolution’ in educational reform should his ascendancy land him in the Prime Ministership at the end of the year. But this is nothing new. Over recent years, and particularly the past 12 months there has been heavy focus on educational reform and specifically, the creation of a national syllabus. It’s probably hard to argue against this. Indeed, logic almost demands that Australian students should be taught the same things to the same level across the nation. And in some subjects, such as chemistry and physics, states share around a 90% overlap in course content; a commendable consistency. Yet subjects such as history, English and other humanity-oriented subjects often share less than 40% in common. Clearly Julie Bishop is intent on remedying this. However, she is meeting stiff opposition from the states. 

I was particularly interested to read her comments in the Australian on Friday Feb. 2, 2007. The first comment that struck me was this:

The quality of our teachers is critical. After parents, teachers are the most important determinant in educational outcomes for school students. Our teachers are a precious national resource. They should be respected and rewarded for their significant role in educating our children.”

To that comment I add my applause. However, Ms Bishop then went on to suggest,

 “But like other professionals they deserve career incentives. That is why I am developing options for greater consistency in professional development for teachers as well as calling on the states to provide higher salaries, with an element of performance or merit-based pay and greater workplace flexibility. For example, we should be rewarding teachers who work in our most disadvantaged schools and achieve outstanding results, or specialist teachers such as in science or maths.”

And how, Ms Bishop, do we measure the performance of teachers in order to best incentivise them? One would imagine it would be based on the outcomes of the students. And student outcomes are measured in one way only. Grades.  You see, grades are a tangible outcome, whereas learning is not. We can’t measure learning except insofar as test performance indicates it has occurred. 

This slippery slope leads to some severe possibilities. Firstly, if my pay were based on a student performing well from a grade point of view, you can be assured I would set a test I know that they can complete. They’ll all get A’s, I’ll get my pay, and the students’ education is dumbed down further. Their actual learning is undermined. Or try this. We introduce standardised testing so all students must be able to perform to an agreed upon standard. Indeed, purely because they’re standardised, these tests are widely regarded as objective instruments for assessing children’s academic performance.  But there is considerable reason to believe that standardised tests are a poor measure of intellectual proficiency. They are, however, excellent indicators of two things. The first is affluence. Up to 90 percent of the difference in scores among schools, communities, or even states can be accounted for, statistically, without knowing anything about what happened in the classroom. All you need are some fact about the average income and education levels of the students’ parents. The second phenomenon that standardised tests measure is how skillful a group of students is at taking such tests – and, increasingly, how much class time has been given over to preparing them to do just that. 

There is specific research that finds a statistically significant positive relationship between a shallow or superficial approach to learning, on the one hand, and high scores on various standardised tests, on the other. I could go on and provide more reasons for my opposition to standardised testing, but ultimately that’s not the point of this post.  

I simply posit the following:  Firstly, a national curriculum is very much in the interests of our children, particularly with the claims that education is the driver of our nations’ economic prosperity.  

Secondly, providing merit pay, or incentive systems, to teachers (or for that matter any profession) is simply the worst way to obtain quality results. It’s a great quick-fix, but for genuine positive outcomes and intrinsically motivated staff, it is a powerful disincentive to do things the right way. Your thoughts?

25 Responses to “Teacher’s pay and educational outcomes”

  1. brucifer Says:

    Performance pay in my line of work from my experience is divisive (as there are no objective criteria to judge leadership and professionalism etc – all depends on your bosses opinion of you)and ultimately I feel counter productive.

    Therefore I don’t see a place for it in the public (or private) schooling systems.

  2. moulmein Says:

    Thats entirely true Brucifer and Justin, however let me point out that Teachers are amongst the worse paid profession I’ve come to know intimately.

    MY wife is a S1 (high quality in QLD) teacher with 8-9 years experience. She has taught in some of the worse schools around. However, her salary, if she can find a full time job with permanency, is around $50,000. There is scarce a public service position in this country where you could expect a salary like that after 8 years of high quality service. So something must be done to address that, because without incentives financially, there is just no drive to excel amongst the teachers.

    Again however, teaching is high jacked by the casualisation of our labour market. Queensland Media aggresively states that we have a shortage of teachers, but the amount of contracts that are dished out to teachers providing less than stable situations is not an indicator of that at all.

    My concern with education has been discussed before. But I think the problem lies with a few things. Teachers are not paid enough or giving any incentive at all to better themselves (like other jobs were promotions drive people to excel). And Teachers finding permanent work is scarce. It’s not a nice feeling to go a whole year on a contract to be told that your job is not there next year, good luck. Not a nice feeling at all…

  3. Justin Says:

    I agree that teachers ought to be paid more – at least those with a history of success. But how do we truly measure that in the classroom? It has to be a better measure than scores on standardised tests.

    $50 000 is simply not enough moulmein. If I were the primary breadwinner of my home and earned that I would be looking for another career. Especially after several years at university, and dealing with the challenges that exist.

    But how does an incentive work? I’m open to suggesting that teachers be paid based on the skill and experience. Therefore a teacher with a Masters and other Professional Dev. should be worth more than someone with 2 years experience and a B. Ed. or a Grad Dip Ed. But incentivising based on academic outcomes of students is a flawed paradigm.

  4. brucifer Says:

    Next they will be giving nurses performance pay based on number of people they can help kick out of hospital beds for reduced nights per patient…

  5. moulmein Says:

    Yeah pretty disgusting hey Bruc.

    I don’t claim to know what the answer is to that question Justin, it’s one for the policy makers. I think that it could possible be criterion based performance that a principle or supervisor manages and observes. Then I think that there could be different levels that a teacher could apply to by writing case studies or histories, etc. Almost like meeting a selection criteria to a degree. Grades would not be part of it. But having numerous criterias such as Working with parents for example and having Teachers show on paper how they have met a certain level to advance to the next tier on their career path. Something to make them responsible to advance and progress, rather than just simply being stagnant on the one level.

  6. Rebecca Says:

    Thanks for the post, Justin. I agree wholeheartedly with Julie Bishop that teachers “are a precious national resource” and in terms of teachers’ pay, she should put her money where her mouth is. I agree with you that an incentive system such has been suggested by Ms Bishop could ultimately have negative repurcussions for students’ learning, however I’m not sure an incentive based on skills/experience as measured by a teacher’s academic qualification is ideal either. I think this because for teachers with lesser qualifications (eg. Bachelors) this may be a disincentive to do their work well and even to continue in the profession. On the other hand, an incentive based on qualifications may encourage teachers to enhance their own education, and perhaps teachers should be given encouragement (eg. paid study leave, flexible study, financial support, or a bonus if they do further study) to do this.
    However, and I am only speaking from personal experience, I wonder if academic qualifications are an accurate measure of how well someone is equipped to do a job, and do it well. Obviously, it is important to us that students receive the very best learning that can be provided. My experience has been in my own work life, which has been mainly in the human services area, that the more highly-qualified workers aren’t necessarily better at providing positive and effective help to people, than their less-qualified colleagues. Also, I study I heard of found that counsellors (my current profession) of only about six week’s professional experience were just as effective in assisting clients achieve positive outcomes as were counsellors of many more years experience. So perhaps experience is also not the most accurate measure of ability to do a job well either.
    I think for now, and I think these are still not the ideal solution for rewarding teachers and promoting student’s learning, teachers’ salaries increased, and a lot of assistance and encouragment given to those who wish to further their teaching qualifications. I’ll give it some more thought…

  7. Justin Says:

    You’re spot on Rebecca and I’m a little disappointed in myself for going there. Just because a person is more “qualified” doesn’t mean that they’ll be superior in teaching. So incentivising teachers for having extra qual’s is potentially also a flawed paradigm.

    What gets me is this idea that we can incentivise, and our problems will go away! I can just see employers sitting around saying, “Hmmm, productivity is down, results are declining. What should we do? I know, let’s turn the workplace into a gameshow. We’ll offer holidays to the Sunshine Coast for the teacher of the month, and bonus pay for each teacher who’s class has an 80% pass rate on xxx standardised test.”

    Incentives undermine worker motivation, and study after study proves it. Yet there are business consultants out there who get paid megabucks to help companies upgrade their incentive programmes because the old one stopped incentivising.

    As Brucifer suggests, they rupture relationships, especially when there is a scarcity mentality associated with them.

    But perhaps most importantly, incentives ignore the reasons. Hmm, we’ve got problems. Let’s bribe people to do better. It’s a band-aid solution that attempts to sweep the underlying problems in the system under the carpet.

    The most disturbing aspect is that incentives are shown to reduce motivation. People become focussed on what they can get, and take shortcuts to get there. No mouse is a maze, looking for cheese, says “Gee, I might try a different route today.” They get the reward the quickest and most proven way they can. Desire for exploration and innovation is stymied because that involves risk, and risk means a person may not get the reward they’re after.

    So what do we do instead? It’s obviously not our decision, but I believe that a couple of things should happen.

    First, there should be greater accountability. Many teachers I know state that what happens in their classroom is rarely, if ever, checked on. Accountability leads to greater effectiveness and effort, as well as refining the professional development process.

    Second, bureaucrats should remember that children develop on different schedules. Some kids brains are wired to read by age 3 or 4, others struggle with it at age 6. And it’s only partly to do with environmental factors. Certain parts of the brain don’t begin functioning until a particularly point, which varies for each child. And if it’s not functioning, no matter how much training we give them, it won’t work (think of teaching a 3 month old to talk).

    Third, as much as possible, students and teachers should be allowed to be flexible in pursuing their interests for study. Clearly the three r’s must be taught. But let the kids choose what they read (at an appropriate level). Make the ‘rithmetic applicable to their lives as they learn the principles. And encourage the ‘riting to be associated with favourite colours, or letters to friends and family and so on.

    Fourth, with appropriate systems in place to ensure teachers work is effective, pay them well. Let them know their work is valued by remunerating them well. Then tell them to forget about the money and go to work! If conditions are set up well, they can be motivated to do what they love, be paid well, and not need to think about it anymore.

    Your thoughts?

  8. Rebecca Says:

    I like your suggestions Justin.
    It wasn’t a bad idea either, your suggestion of incentives based on qualifications. It can certainly be measured more objectively than what Julie Bishop suggested. Also, for someone to have a Masters or PhD in a particular field shows a real passion and commitment to learning in that area. I think it would be wonderful for students to be educated by someone who has such a high level of knowledge and interest in what they are teaching. The real trick is, I think, for the teacher to be committed to the students as well as the curriculum, and to be able to convey knowledge in a way that students can learn effectively. However, this is a skill/attribute that may not necessarily be guaranteed by obtaining certain academic qualifications.
    I agree with your four suggestions, which seem to focus on individuality and flexiblity in learning. Sometimes I wonder if our present education systems, or even a national system, allow for such flexibility and individuality, and how effective the systems are at educating all students. A teacher of mine once suggested that modern education systems are a product of the Industrial Revolution, a system of mass production – quick, standard, and cost-effective. She argued that our expectations that we send children to be educated at places where there is just one teacher who is expected to deal with so many students, each with different interests, abilities and needs, and in a certain timeframe, with certain tests to ascertain learning, and limited resources, all dictated by an outside body (such as the government) was an archaic concept to say the least. It seems a bit ridiculous to me, the supposition that with limited time, resources and teacher’s attention, a student can be expected to learn well, let alone fit in and enjoy the experience. But I guess we are fortunate that our society does value and promote education in the first place. We just need to find more effective ways of imparting it, and to this extent, I feel that by valuing the work that teachers do by paying them better is a small, but worthwhile change.

  9. Justin Says:

    I’ve just received an email from a friend that I believe is relevant to this thread.

    He cites an article (unfortunately there is no author or title so I can’t reference it for you) that gives me pause to question my initial applause for Julie Bishop suggesting we need a nationwide curriculum.

    In essence the article supports the notion of federalism and I believe it’s points apply to education too.

    “The current education minister, encouraged by many of the same lobbyists (Business lobbyists arguing for centralisation and removal of state boundaries because of inconsistency), is campaigning for national education and curriculum standards.

    “At face value, acceding to the requests of the business sector might appear quite reasonable. What is good for business should be good for employment, investment, growth and the welfare of the broader population.

    “However, national uniformity based on the prevailing view among policymakers in Canberra suggests we already have all the answers and that we simply need to implement them in as efficient a manner as possible.

    “The reality is quite different. In policy areas dealing with social welfare, health and education, for example, we are more likely to be continually experimenting to find a better way of delivering outcomes. Indeed, at any time, we might be redefining what constitutes an acceptable outcome.

    “Similarly, in the context of business policy, there are differences in approach to infrastructure funding, fostering innovation, creating workplace incentives for better performance and market development, to name just a few issues in which governments become involved, suggesting room for experimentation.

    “In that context, an active role by state governments can be beneficial. Their ability to trial different approaches based on the peculiarities of local circumstances can encourage innovation leading to speedier improvement than if all jurisdictions are committed to policy uniformity.”

    I like the idea put forward and have never thought of the issue that way. However, I would also add that with federalism comes duplication and inefficiency, as well as buck passing and other challenges. I wonder whether the costs of federalism outweigh the benefits, even on the education matter.

  10. Justin Says:

    One more quick note on Rebecca’s comment of the Industialised manner of producing graduates (of Grade 1, 10, 12 or university). A leading educational scholar and researcher suggested that the lecture theatre style of education is “the fastest way to get information from the lecturers notes to the students’ notes without it ever touching the student’s mind.”

  11. brucifer Says:

    I like that quote Justin :-) Though I never finished my degree, I remember thinking often while persevering with full time work and uni studies “why do I bother showing up to lectures?” Many lecturers were skilled at reading from the textbook to 200 students – woohoo..

    Lecturers, few and far between, that enrich, add value to course material and challenge our ways of thinking are absolute gems – maybe we should clone the good ones!!! Now there’s a topic for a whole new thread!

  12. brucifer Says:

    Regarding federalism v national argument in one of your posts Justin – another vexed issue. I used to be a big supporter of the States, but as I become more aware of chronic buck-passing between states and feds, I really dunno what to think, but on a prima-faece analysis, I would be leaning toward national systems for health, education and road rules

  13. Steve Says:

    I’ve only skimmed through this thread so I may be repeating some folks but as some of you know, I am a secondary teacher. I think the incentive idea has some merit, but I can’t think of an equitable way of doing it.
    I decided to become a teacher in an area where I had a lot of qualifications and experience. I teach business and computing. Before that, I had almost a decade of experience as a consultant training IT professionals and writing nationally accrredited training programs, as well as running a web development business (with accreditation from Microsoft and other industry biggies). To put it simply, I could earn far more as a teacher and (without trying to blow my own trumpet) I’m a lot more qualified than your average school computing teacher. I don’t get paid any more though. I don’t mind that since I didn’t become a teacher for the money but sometimes I felt it a bit rich that when I was a first year teacher I was treated no differently than a 21 year old who did a bachelor of education straight out of high school. There’s no recognition of prior learning/experience.
    I know science teachers who are qualified geologists with extensive experience in the mining industry. Metalwork teachers who are qualified boilermakers (in a mining town where they could make a killing). Teachers like that are few. I work in a school that’s classified as difficult to staff. There is some monetary incentive for working at a school like this but hardly enough to draw the cream of the teaching profession. Conditions aren’t great. Right now we’re 6 teachers short so admin staff including the principal are having to take on classes while there are out of work teachers in the city who aren’t willing to leave the city. There just isn’t enough incentive to draw any except the ones who do it for the love of it.

  14. Steve Says:

    Yes I recognise the irony of typos in a post from a teacher. :p

  15. Justin Says:

    Steve I am right there with you in so many ways. In my ward we have a lady who heads the science department at a major Brisbane High School. She has a PhD in chemistry, but despite that, she is still paid the same amount as others at a similar level who may only have their 3 years of Ed or perhaps 4 years of science.

  16. moulmein Says:

    All interesting ideas but still won’t assist the policymakers in government. Thing is teachers are underpaid, we’ve come to agree on that, and the government is doing little about it.

    Perhaps a national idea is ok, but would it solve the problem? Or just be another band aid solution.

  17. moulmein Says:

    I just listened to Julie Bishop on the national press gallery. She’s adamant that teachers are precious and we have little of them. I’m not sure about that.

    Certainly for Primary School teachers in QLD this is not the case. There are many looking for work without success. The move to Casualisation makes it even tougher. I’ve heard my friend who just finished his degree in Primary teaching say that of his graduating class of 300, he’s heard of only 3 who have been offered work.

    Bishop is also hell bent on giving the Principals ability and autonomy to hire and fire. This is problematic. Already we have a system of ‘who you know, not what you know’. Giving Principals even more autonomy just means that system will be strengthened. I’m sorry Ms.Bishop, but you’ve got it all wrong…

  18. Justin Says:

    I’m not convinced that the principals shouldn’t have more autonomy in the hiring and firing stakes. As it stands, the bureaucracy advertises the position, interviews and sends successful candidates to the school. Surely the principal would have a better idea of what his or her school needs than the overseer in the ivory tower. She knows what dynamics she wants in a new team member, she wants to know about commitment, passion and extra interests and contributions. In the private system the principal can create the mix he wants because he has that power.

    As for firing, well… work for the govt and you’ve got a job for life, even if you’re incompetent. I’m not suggesting all govt. workers are incompetent – in fact I know the truth to be that many are brilliant, and most are competent. But I also know that the gov could do a lot more to oust the underperformers. And if a principal wants to give a teacher the boot, what a jungle of red tape trying to convince the ivory towered ones that there really is justification. Even when successful, the person may not be fired, but rather, moved.

    Moulmein, you have a wife who is a teacher. Steve, you’re also in the profession so you both may be able to effectively counter my suggestions and I’m open to that. I’m particularly interested in this idea that we don’t have enough of them, yet there’s no work. From what I’ve heard we’re crying out for them and particularly for males.

    Further, a good friend of mine is teaching casually at $300 a day or something similar (it may be more). He has ample work to survive with his wife and three children. So he’s all for casualisation. Horses for courses?

  19. moulmein Says:

    Actually my wife is also a relief teacher at present and gets $270+ a day, which is fine for us, but she has had to work hard in order to obtain good standings with different schools. Time and time again we’ve seen 1-2 yr out of uni teachers getting permanent jobs in schools just cause they’ve known someone there, or got along good with someone there. IT’s wrong and completely unjust to those teachers like my wife, who was seeking permanency, who are sitting on the waiting list for something permanent.

    Your argument that ‘once a public servant always a public servant’ doesn’t wash in the teaching debate though Justin. Contract teaching is on a high and there are alot of primary teachers at least desperately seeking those. Relief teaching just does not provide the stability that some families, or should I say, most families desire.

    Principals should not have more autonomy cause it means that more and more teachers will be hired ‘just cause they know’ the teacher. Let’s use my Father in Law as a case study. He’s a good man, don’t get me wrong, but he wielded his sword on numerous occasions for my wife when she was just starting out. And he has done so again for my sister in law. Now that may not be bad, and I’m not suggesting that my father in law is without honour, but it shows how the ‘its not what you know, its who you know’ system works. Given principals more autonomy is only likely to enhance this.

    I have had long discussions on the internet with former Education Minister Anna Bligh (now Deputy Premier of QLD) about the lack of employment. The answer I always got was, we try the best to get people in jobs. Truth is kids are going to uni thinking that ‘yes they need teachers and yes I will be working full time after this’. My friend was a case of this. But now and 250+ primary school graduates from QUT are looking for work. Casual teachers are not in that strong demand I’m afraid. And yet QUT keeps taking in new undergraduates every year like there is a shortage or something. If there is one, it’s only because it’s too damn hard to get permanency and as such people are heading to other career paths and also overseas. But there isn’t an undersupply of teachers in the Primary schools. Certainly not on the level that our trades are undersupplied which I’ve heard the comparison of.

    This is QLD however, but from reports I’ve heard that Tas is in a similar predicament. I’m interested however to hear what my Father in Law has to say about Julie Bishops comments.

    Needless to say Justin, all is not well in Education with Teachers. Our case is by far not the only one where frustration and complete discontent for the system has led us to say, ‘perhaps the Education should be revamped and run under a Federal system’.

  20. brucifer Says:

    FYI an article on the very subject of teachers pay from the respected US National Bureau of Research Economics http://papers.nber.org/papers/W12285

  21. moulmein Says:

    Thanks Brucifer…interesting stuff.

  22. Justin Says:

    The following is from today’s Australian…

    Federal Education Minister Julie Bishop wants school principals to have the power to select, and sack, their staff. She supports higher pay for the best teachers and advocates publishing statistics on the performance of individual schools. None of these are new ideas, but they are still good ones. For years, people who believe in the right of all Australian children to an education that allows them to make the most of their abilities have demanded reforms to make schools, and individual teachers, accountable for their performance. As with the push by Ms Bishop’s portfolio predecessor, Brendan Nelson, for plain English report cards, anything that provides parents, and the community in general, with more information on what is happening in the school system is sound policy.

    Inevitably, the education establishment – state ministers, administrators and union leaders – will hate Ms Bishop’s ideas. The possibility of parents comparing the performance of individual institutions, not against abstract averages, but the school in the next suburb, is unpopular with the bureaucrats who run the public systems. And teacher unions, who argue all their members are equally excellent, loathe the idea of treating the best teachers as autonomous professionals. But families who use public schools will love Ms Bishop’s plans.

    Performance pay will show parents that their children’s teachers have a reason to improve their performance. And more information on the successes and failures of specific schools will empower parents, giving them the information they need to praise, blame – or change – their child’s school. If there is one way to stop the drift of disgruntled parents to the non- government school sector this is it. And Labor knows it. Education spokesman Stephen Smith supports more public information on school performance. He says the classroom performance of teachers should be rated. If Labor signs on for national education reform, Ms Bishop may not score election-year points. But she will have done families who rely on public education a great service.

    As you know I have some issues with the performance pay, and that has been clearly enunciated above. However, on the whole I believe the editor has this right. Australia does need this reform, it’s in our best interest and should be encouraged, not poo pooed.

  23. Justin Says:

    This link explains what the Independent Schools have been doing to overcome the challenge associated with pay for performance.

    http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/a-broader-view-of-a-teachers-worth/2007/02/22/1171733947887.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1

    I like it because it: gets rid of the time = more pay problem

    It also focusses on classroom practice rather than emphasising grades, or teaching to a standardised test.

    Some nice ideas.

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